Hello everybody and welcome to the 230 session for today's Ohio local history Alliance annual meeting. You are in the session John Brown speaks, and the your tech person Stasia Cusi esky Director of Outreach see Ohio History Connection. And if you are tweeting, Facebooking Instagramming whatever, don't forget the hashtag, hashtag. Oh, lha empowers. And just to review a few technical things, we are recording this event. And we do have the q&a open for any questions we ask that if you have questions for our presenter, please put those in the q&a. We also have enabled a chapter in this presentation, and that's a place for you to share any comments or resources you might have. But if you have questions for the presenter please put those in the q&a It'll be easier for us to break those two out of questions for the presenter and q&a, and comments and chatting amongst yourselves and sharing any resources is in the chat. Also there is closed captioning available for this session. And that is available through the main task bar, though it should be at the bottom of your screen. If you have any questions about how to use that please send me a chat and we can, and I can help you through that. Per usual, If you have any technical difficulties. What the first step to do could be just to log out, and then use the link to log back in, sometimes that helps also just making sure that all the sound settings are appropriate, on your computer so you can hear us. And again if you have any other chapter excuse me any other technical problems, you can send me a private chat as well and we'll, and we'll help you out with that. So with that, I'm going to pass it over to our moderator, Leslie Blankenship, Leslie. Unknown Speaker 31:36 There. Unknown Speaker 31:38 Forgot to unmute myself. Hello everyone. Welcome. I am Leslie Blankenship. I am a trustee at large of the Ohio local history Alliance. I also serve on the Education Committee. This is the group that plans this conference. I'm also a volunteer since 1990 with the Kelton House Museum and garden. It's an 1850s House Museum in Columbus, Ohio, that's also a site on the Underground Railroad. This session as Stasia said is John Brown speaks. It features, historian and John Brown interpreter. Very often burned. He's a third generation native of Douglas County, Kansas where Lawrence is located. He tells me that he has been preoccupied with these stories. Since John Brown found him in 2006. When it's time to do a question as Stacey said please put it in the q&a, and we're going to ask you to do something a little more complicated this time. If you have questions of Captain Brown, please put them in, and notify us that that's what you would like them to address to, he would like to address, address them first. And then if you have questions of Kerry himself, but those in later. And he will answer them. So today, the magic of zoom. We are transcending space and time. We are going back to somewhere in Kansas territory and late 1858 Catherine Brown, welcome. Unknown Speaker 33:24 Thank you sister Blankenship. Hi my name is John Brown. You may have heard of me. You may have an opinion of me. I don't care what you think of me, I don't care what your opinion is of me. That makes no difference. But does make a difference is that you know the truth. It is written in Scripture that the truth shall set you free. And I believe in setting people free. I believe in freedom. So today I will tell you my truth, at least part of my truth as I see it, and then let you as reasonable adults come to your own conclusion about how who I, I am or who I eventually will be. I was born May 9 in 1800 in Torrington, Connecticut, into a family of abolitionists, two of my grandfather's served in the Continental Army and the one I was named after he died in that service. The Browns have always been patriots. We have always believed that America could be the greatest nation on Earth. If it had that potential. But God would never allow it to achieve that potential. As long as it had the yoke of slavery, around its neck. slavery is an abomination. How can you own a brother or a sister. We are all brothers and sisters, under the skin, which is only skin deep. We never could understand that. And my father and my mother, up until she died when I was eight, taught my brothers and sisters and I, how about the evils of slavery. By the time I was 12 years old, like most 12 years old I thought I knew everything that was about the world and everything there was about the evils of slavery. But then something happened that year. That showed me that I, I really didn't understand it at all. That was 1812, the year that the United States went to war with Great Britain, and it was feared that the British would invade the Northwest Territories of the United States, down from there. Your dominions, north of the Great Lakes, so a series of forts were built along that border. And of course those forts had soldiers and of course those soldiers needed to eat. By this time, we were living in the Western Reserve of Ohio. And my father was a good businessman, as well as a good abolitionist, and he, he contracted with a man to purchase a herd of cattle from him to sell to one of the forks. So he did that. And he sent me. John Brown to go round up those cattle and drive them to the fort, which I did. Well over 100 miles, but I got to the for the people there thought young boy 12 year old. Having done such an achievement by himself, was, was something to note. I didn't think it was anything but they did one man in particular came up to me and said, Have you a place to stay until you can go home, so he was going to take a few days for me to settle up everything and go back home. I said no sir, I do not, he said, Well, why don't you come home with me and live with my family while you're here. I said, well, thank you sir, I will. So I went home with him. When I got there, I saw that his household included a young boy about my age. You asked me, Why do I say about my age. Yes You see he didn't know how old he was exactly and you say how is that possible. Well, he didn't even know his birthday. What, what did you say he doesn't know his birthday. I said no, because you see that young boy, was one of my black brothers, and he was enslaved to that man. And Melanie, many times slaves did not know how, how old they were even when they were born because it wasn't kept track of owners did not care when they were born, they did not care how old they was for as long as they could work them, work them to their old age, whenever that came. And so he, he didn't know how old he was Unknown Speaker 38:10 owners might say well, why should I care. I don't celebrate my wagons birthday or know how old my home is, why should I care about any other piece of my property because you see, he was considered by the law to be that man's property. My black brother and I made friends very quickly because I treated him as if he were my equal, which he was not he experienced with with white people. No one treated him as an equal. And so we became friends. And on the few instances that he had free. We played together we shot marbles, we became very good friends very quickly. And then, the day before I was going to go home. The man threw a party. And that night, when everybody went home. I don't know why. Well, there was a lot of alcohol drunk at that party and that may be part of the reason for what happens next, but it is not an excuse because you see after everyone had left. That man became enraged with my friend, so much so he walked over to the fireplace and picked up the metal called shovel, and began being my friend with it, beating him, buddy. Right in front of my eyes. What was I to do, when I was 12 years old, he was a fully grown man and an alcoholic, friends. I could not stop. Had I had a weapon I might have tried, but I did not. And I could not. But I did. I watched, and I learned a lesson I learned what slavery really meant that man could have killed my friend. Thank the Lord. He did not. But he could have. And if he had, he would have broken no laws, because that man. Oh, my friend, and could do anything he wanted with anything. I realized that slavery meant that a slave. Slaves very existence was owned by someone else who could end that existence on a whim, with no repercussions, no repercussions, at least not in our mortal realm. Hopefully, in the Hereafter, but not now. I swore to myself that very moment that I would work against slavery for the rest of my life until either slavery ended my life, and time passed, and I grew up in 1820 I'm married Diantha, and we began a family, a very important year for the Brown family, but also a very important year for the United States, because that was the year of the Missouri Compromise, that allowed Missouri, a slave state, the most northern slave state to be admitted to come into the Union balanced by a newly created free territory called Maine that had once belonged to Massachusetts, and called the district of Maine, but then it was converted to the territory of Maine and they were to come in together to keep Congress balanced and important other feature of the Missouri Compromise one that allowed anti slavery, legislators to vote for it. Was that the southern boundary of Missouri that line of latitude would be traced all the way across the rest of the Louisiana Purchase, and it would be the northern boundary or any new slave state could form, south of there. Yes, north, no. And that became the law of the land. And it was the law of the land for many years. Time passed in 1832 Diantha bar our seventh child stillborn. And then she came down with the milk fever. And three days later, she died. She died leaving me grief stricken bereft of helpmates I had small children to take care of and no one to help me. Unknown Speaker 43:07 I thought for a while that for some reason the Lord had abandoned me but I was wrong. Because he brought me Mary. Mary day we met recorded. The next year 1833 We married, and began a family of our own. She was very good stepmother to Diana's children. And we had many children ourselves during my life, I have fathered 20 children. But I am certain that half will not live to be adulthood. Many are already dead. It's a hard life. It is a hard life for everyone. There is accident, illness, a child can be running happy and healthy and playing in the yard one day, lying dead in its coffin in the parlor. The next day, seemingly for no reason at all. Yes, it's a hard life for everyone, but it's an especially hard life for the browns because we make no bones about the fact that we are abolitionists, and not like many abolitionists that say yes. Slavery is bad, but those people are inferior. So once we free them from their bondage, we will send them all back to Africa, or the South America or somewhere outside of the United States because the United States is a white man's country, we're getting rid of those damn Indians, why should we keep any other inferiors around. That's what many abolitionists thought. But we let everyone know that was not us. We said that once our black brothers and sisters who are in bondage, simply because of the color of their skin are freed from that bondage, they will join us in this nation, as full citizens with full rights, and we will work alongside each other, and live alongside each other and our children will go to school together, as the equals that we all are. That was not a popular thing to say to people. Many people thought the Browns were very, very strange perhaps insane. Why we would go over to black folks houses and eat with them at their tables. And even worse, we let Black folks to our house and sit them at our tables and serve them. That too many was lunacy. We knew better. We knew better. Time advanced abolitionists thought, if you told people how bad slavery was enough times, it would go away. People would say, Oh well, we'll add this to evil practice. So they wrote, pamphlets, and they published, newspapers, and they had Lecture Series talking for years I thought that was the best way. But over time, I saw that slavery was not weakening, slavery was getting stronger. Unknown Speaker 46:29 Texas teahouse actually a steak in Mexico. A group of Americans went in to Tae hos to live, but they were disgruntled because you see Mexico had abolished slavery. And these text guns they had play with them, and they wanted slaves. So they revolted against Mexico, and the Republic of Texas, a slave, country, was formed. A few years later, the United States annex Texas as a slave state. And then, not long after Polk, President Koch instigated a war with Mexico, a conquest War, in which the ended up the United States acquiring vast territory, Out West, all the way to the Pacific. That was done to open up areas in the United States for slavery to expand into that was the only reason to expand that slave free area to expand the area where slavery could be. I mean, one of those states was California. In 1849, gold was discovered there. Everybody wanted California to come into union, they said yes, we would like to come into the EU. At first there was talk about splitting California in half, Northern California would be pre South California would be slaying but California said no, we're coming into the union is one state, and as a free state, that was a problem because there was no, no territory. Slave territory that they could bring into balance Congress. So, A compromise was worked out the compromise of 1850, to allow California to come into Union by giving the pro slavers, everything that they'd wanted for years, including the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850, which replaced the one that lasted or began in 17 893 slavers had always said it was touch too weak of a law, slaves could actually escape to free states, and those free states, said that they were their citizens. That new slave after change that. It said that all government officials from the President to the local justices of the peace had to actively seek out capture and return freed slaves to their masters if they did not. They were subject to $1,000 Fine, for each slave that they did not process. Even worse than that. It said that anyone. Anyone at all, any of you who assisted and escaped slave in any way, were subject to arrest imprisonment in a Federal Penitentiary at hard labor for up to six months. And $1,000 Fine, figure out for yourself what station Masters on the Underground Railroad risked by keeping escaped slaves. Risking capture and ruin. Unknown Speaker 50:13 They did it. Unknown Speaker 50:16 They did it. That fugitive slave back riled up the abolitionists, they said, You know what, maybe what we've been doing all these years is not sufficient. Maybe we have to do something besides talk, I'd said that for several years. I'd said that talk, talk, talk was all the abolitionists were doing what we needed was, action, action. So, everything was primed for what happened in four years 1854 Stephen Douglas, senator from Illinois, wanted to open up all the territory is out west. The white settlement as soon as possible. Starting with the territory directly west of Missouri. He wrote a bill called the Kansas Nebraska act to open up those territories, and it would start with that territory, just west of Missouri, which he called Kansas. He needed southern support. The way he got it. He added something in his bill called Popular Sovereignty, which meant meant that the residents of those territories could vote on whether it would become a slave state or a free state, when it joined the Union. Completely throwing out the Missouri Compromise. Any new territory, anywhere in the United States, all the way up to the northern boundary could become a slave state, just by the vote of who got there with the most. The fastest abolitionists back east realized this was probably going to pass so they organized societies back east to send men and supplies out to the new Kansas territory. Once it opened up to vote to settle to vote and to make Kansas, a free state. And it was signed into law may 30 1854 And they began enacting bringing people out here, bringing people out to Kansas. Missourians take to came into Kansas, not just Missouri and people from all over the South but we all call them Missourians. And they said, we have a right, a right to have Kansas be a slave state, how do you get to Kansas from Missouri, you step across an imaginary boundary on the ground, how do these foreigners from back east get here. But first they have to ride a train, and then a steamboat and then wagons and horses. More than 1000 miles. Those foreigners do not be long here. They will try to steal Kansas from us and we will not let them. We will do whatever we have to do to ensure Kansas to be slain, what ever we have to do. And they met it. A Mantid five of those freestate men who came out to Kansas were my sons, they got here just about the same time as the first territorial election to pick the legislature that would write Kansas Constitution and the laws that would bring Kansas into the nation, as a state. March 30 The day of the vote, 1000s of Missourians poured over the border, who did not live in Kansas, and went to polling places. They said that the governor of the territorial governor of Kansas, Shannon had said you don't have to live in Kansas to vote. All you have to do is have a claim here, so they'd go up to a polling place and take a stick or they're the ramrod from a musket or something and scratch out a few square feet around where they were standing and I say this is my claim. And I will vote. And they won't vote, and many times they will not allow the Free State residents who actually live there and were legal voters to vote. And many of them weren't satisfied with voting once they go to the next polling Space Station, scratched out another few feet around them. Make another claim and vote again. When all the ballots were counted out of the approximately 2700 legal residents in the territory over 6000 votes were cast. Unknown Speaker 54:58 The Free Staters cried foul. But eventually the federal government recognized that fraudulent vote, and allowed those pro slavers to form their legislature, which the Free State is called the bogus legislature because it was illegal. They actually voted in their own legislature, and officers and there was two competing governments in Kansas, one slave recognized by the federal government and one free recognized by Free Staters. When Kansas was first opened, people were not paying attention to what was going to happen. I know what happened. What happened was there was trouble. And then after that trouble. Not long after trouble started that trouble turn to violence. And then that violence quickly turned to bloodshed. And most of the blood that was shed, early on was free statements but the bogus legislature took the Missouri Constitution crossed out in Missouri and wrote Kansas and that was going to be the Constitution. They also passed a number of laws including that you could not print in your newspaper in Kansas, that Kansas should not become a slave state. You asked what about the First Amendment. There was no First Amendment in Kansas, if you were a free state and the federal government allowed that. As a matter of fact, the federal government was so afraid that Kansas could become a free state, that if it did, the South would become so enraged, they would secede from the Union, as they had threatened to do every time. In the past, when they wanted their way. So they worked alongside of the pro slavers. My son's had much trouble out here. So they wrote to me back east and said, Father, please come out here we need, we need your help. And please bring weapons. The Free Staters came here expecting a free open election and pro slavers came armed to the teeth so I came out, had not been here long before there was trouble. March was almost destroyed by 2000. Pro slavery men. They didn't. However, there was no attack, the territorial governor brokered a peace treaty. The Pro slavery man went back home saying there's next year. Always next. So, the walker Russa war as this incident was called was ended with ended without a battle, but it didn't have a death. Thomas Barber, a free state man riding home out of Lawrence was accosted by two pro slavery men who said they had to come with him Barbara said I don't have to come with you. And their response was to pull their pistols out and shoot him dead off his horse. He was taken back to Lawrence to the Free State hotel, and I stood in the doorway of the room, where his body was laid out, watching his poor widow grieve over her husband's bullet rental body. Did anything happen to those men know where they are. No, no one of them was the Federal Parliament Pottawatomie Indian agent, the one who was eventually blamed or credited depending how you felt about it. For barbers death, nothing happened to. In January, a free state man was captured in an altercation in Leavenworth. He was taken by the close slavery man and hacked to death with a hatchet. Unknown Speaker 59:08 Have to death with a hedge. Did anything happened to the man that use the hatchet. Unknown Speaker 59:15 No, nothing. Absolutely nothing. It was obvious that it was open season on Free Staters. We had two choices. We could leave and let Kansas be a slave state, where 1000s More of our black brothers and sisters would be in bondage. We could stay in fight. And we stayed in May, group of pro slavery men sacked and burned the town of Lawrence, the headquarters of the Free State movement. We got worried that they were coming, but we didn't get there in time. Then we went back home. We went back home to where we lived along mosquito Creek, a tributary of the Pottawattamie. There was a man. Jefferson Buford who had a 300 man pro slavery army in Kansas, and I found out they intended to sweep the Pottawatomie clean Free Staters. It looked like there was a massacre been brewing, that's for sure. Something had to be done, the federal government was obviously helping them. They were pre pro slavery men could kill. Free State men with absolute impunity. Threatened lives and property with no repercussions. Someone had to show them something had to be done to show them that you could not do that with impunity that there were consequences for your actions Unknown Speaker 1:00:59 had found out that some of my pro slavery neighbors intended to kill my family. On the night of the 24th and 25th of May. Those men. Five of them were pulled out of their beds along Pottawattamie Creek and hacked to death with broadswords in what's been called the Pottawatomie massacre, the widow of one of the men described the leader, as someone that looked like me so my name quickly became associated with it. I have never admitted and I have never denied that I was there and I shall not do so today. But I will tell you something had to be done. Something had to be done to show those pro slavery men, they did not own Kansas, and something was done. One of the results of Pottawatomie was at Buford army broke up. Some of them went home and many of them went around to join in other pro slavery militias in Kansas, one of them came up to Douglas County, to a place called blackjack springs where the militia was camped that militia was under the command of a 24 year old Virginian, who was an author, a poet, a writer, a publisher of newspapers, named Henry Clay pate. He had been in on the Sack of Lawrence, he had to help burn Lawrence. After the Pottawattamie massacre. He got himself appointed as a deputy US Marshal to go get old brown. He needed a posse. He lived in Westport, Missouri. There was a group of riflemen up there, a young militia they were young men. They call themselves the west part rifles, and they joined PEQ. And they changed their name to Shannon sharpshooters when they did that. The reason I did that is because territorial governor Kansas shot Shannon and opened up the federal arsenal in Liberty, Missouri, and passed out federal firearms to them, making them in effect, a federal militia, and they were looking for me. And then I fat they captured two of my sons. I'd heard that, I wanted to get my sons back, but I also wanted to stop them from the marauding they were doing, because they would go around to Free State settlements, and free state homesteads and try to drive the Free Staters out of the state, out of the territory back to where they came. Doesn't sound like what a deputy US Marshal should be doing that what they were doing. And on June 1 1856 They camped at blackjack Springs Campground. The second campground into Kansas territory, along the Santa Fe Trail. As I said, some of you for tonight about 10 of them came in and join them. And they brought some free state prisoners that they take. He said five of his young men over to Prairie City. a free state town about three miles west of blackjack springs from the Santa Fe Trail small little town, pre-state town. I thought they'd have no problems better said a lot more than five minutes they thought they'd have had any problems but when they got there they found out that they wanted to overconfidence. Because the town was full of people there was one of the churches in town was having a revival meeting that day. And all those people would be Free Staters in a free state town so those boards got really concerned. And then, when about 25 armed men poured out of one of those churches and came right at them, they knew they were in trouble and they bought two of them made it to their horses and got away. Three of them did not. Those 25 men that came out of the church, with a total of two militias one led by me one led by Sam shore, and Sam and I set those boys down and question them, and they eventually told us they were with pates, Shannon sharpshooters over at blackjack springs and we'd be in trouble if we went over there because they had a fortified position. Some of my young man they want to go anyway they said well don't catch him right now and attack paint I said no, it's broad daylight time study not studied enough military doctrine to know you do not attack a fortified position unless you have at least two to one superiority. They aren't numbers. If we go over there now we will be massacred. So we waited until it got dark, and then we moved from Prairie City to Blackjacks brains over a fairly rugged ground in the dark, and it was dark, because that was the night of the new moon, which cast no light. Unknown Speaker 1:05:57 We didn't carry a lantern either because the absolute last thing you do, if you're trying to sneak up on somebody across open prairie in the dark, is to carry a light, because you can see it for miles. So it took us all night. I wanted to get there before light before any light surroundings camp and attack. But it was already getting much too light as we approached from the west today before those two men that escaped, got back to pay, he said, there are free state assassins in Prairie City. And I'll be coming over here so. Hey, moved his wagons down closer to the creek, put them his four wooden wagons in a semi circle bedded his men down behind it and set out centuries pickets is what we call them. And as I was getting like that next morning, one of those pickets sauce, one of my, one of our men probably shores men fired a warning shot, they fell back Paceman got up behind the wagons, and over a hill to the north. They observe men coming. They waited until the men were within range and then they set so much heavy fire over there that they would draw them eventually back over the hill. Pay thought. They all thought they had a victory and they began cheering prematurely, as it turned out because those were shores. And while Pete and his men were busy with shores man we were off to the south, and we managed to get over the crest of the hill and down into the creek just opposite pace, men without being seen and as soon as his men started cheering, we opened up on them, and they quickly found out that wooden wagons did not stop bullets, five of his men were wounded. Within a minute or two, he knew he would literally be shot to pieces if he stayed there, and they moved down into the creek, the creeks their form of capital why Creek, like I said the creeks are there they have banks on both sides, not just the watercourse. The V shape, but also high banks, and he got down Unknown Speaker 1:08:08 into that down below those banks. We were already behind the banks, on the other Creek. Unknown Speaker 1:08:18 He was on the left arm, we were on the right arm, and an area maybe 100 feet across, at its widest you say how come you didn't all shoot yourself to pieces. Well because those banks you could use them as natural fortifications ducked down to reload and only expose yourself when you fire. I told my man, don't you come back up after you reload and tell you until you move. You'll never get a count on a stand and he never did. We had 25 men to start with, he had 35 or 40, he could have rushed us and taken us, but he thought he was up against 100 or more, and fought a defensive battle because he thought he had to, and I fought a defensive battle because I knew I had to the battle progressed an hour, hour and a half, two hours. Eventually, I had eight or nine men. I had some of my men. Shoot, paid horses and mules, knowing that he would know he would be stranded in enemy territory, on foot, and he thought he saw a dust cloud on the horizon coming from Lawrence, that he interpreted as reinforcement, so he was very, very concerned when my son Frederick. He'd been behind the lines, taking care of our horses because he had seizure disorders and I didn't want him on the line. He rode one of his brother's horses out into the creek up and ran right between the two lines of men who had just been firing at each other, waving his saber over his head shouting. Father, we have them surrounded it cut off their lines of communication, Unknown Speaker 1:09:56 wrote off. Pay thought Unknown Speaker 1:10:01 he was the vanguard of those pre-state reinforcements and put up a white flag, two men came over, I sent them back saying I wouldn't talk to anybody but the captain for one of them stay. The other one that went to one that actually went back was a free state prisoner that paid said he said over as a sign of goodwill. Prisoner says to pay that man over there won't talk to anybody but you still take charge over, and he said at that time he didn't know he was up against John Brown, or he never would have tried to talk, he comes up to me and dictate, and this and that and this and that. He wasn't talking. I wondered if he was trying to stall for time for reinforcements. So I got fed up with him. I pulled out my pistol cocked it pointed in his chest, and said, You're my prisoner. He said I am not your prisoner. I'm under a white flag, you'll be violating the rules of war. He said, nevertheless, you're my prisoner. You kept arguing and while he argued, a couple of my men, reposition themselves so when they turn to go back, he realized he could not safely, and then like it or not, he was my prisoner. He later wrote, I did not surrender that man tricked me. I like to tell people that paint obviously forgot a Rule of Life. That All's fair in love and war, we relieved. Those men Paceman of their guns went back to Prairie City to negotiate surrender terms and prisoner exchange he said he could get my two sons back from the military, that he turned them over to, I had not realized that I was severely disappointed that my sons were not there. I said of course I want my son's back. So then we left Prairie City and went south, about Southwest about eight and a half miles to land at my friend Tori Jones zones along middle Creek, and we waited for the prisoner exchange which never occurred. The Battle of blackjack occurred on June 2 on June 5 A troop of Dragoons came down from Fort Leavenworth to force me to release Peyton his men. Unknown Speaker 1:12:20 One of the, Unknown Speaker 1:12:22 one of the men, one of the tenants in that group was a young, a young lieutenant who I wonder if I'll ever meet him again. His name was, as I recall it, Jeb Stuart. He was out in Kansas on his first assignment after West Point, we released them in. They caught one of my men who had stayed in Prairie City, and they executed him because he was a neighbor of theirs and they said he was a traitor to Missouri. There were a number of battles, two battles of Franklin the Battle of Fort Saunders. Battle of hickory point that summer of 56, and then came August 30. We were in Ottawa to me. My son Frederick was out walking near his patent office uncle's cabin when a group of men wrote up. One of them said, I know you and we are foes and shot Frederick dead. And then they led the 400 man army into Osawatomie attack drove us back out of town. I was eventually able to bury Frederick, and also a lot of me, where he lies. To this day, I eventually went back East. I took the Bowie knife that I had taken from Henry Clay Pate, when he surrendered, a blackjack, took it to a blacksmith and had asked him to make 1000 copies of it and put them on the end of six foot poles and he said, Why do you need 1000 pipes. Well, I didn't tell him the truth. I said I was going to arm the settlers in Kansas. But I have another purpose for them that I will not go into right now because I can't see everybody out there and I don't know who might be listening, but I will say that if anybody is interested in, in helping me to end slavery, and not just to talk about it, but to act to have action. Get in touch with me later. Get in touch with me later. Well, over, I probably kept you folks enough. You've indulged me for what 45 minutes. So I would, I would like to thank you all for listening. Does anyone have any questions of John Brown. Unknown Speaker 1:14:59 If you do put them in the q&a, and I will ask. Captain brown to answer them. Well we're I don't see any at the moment. One is spellbound by your story. It's a very emotional, lived experience. I don't know how you survived all that. Unknown Speaker 1:15:22 Yes, I don't care if the Lord is directing me, so if he, if he games that proper that I survived and I will survive and if he thinks that my. My death will end slavery, then I will willingly and happily die to end slavery. If it comes to that. Unknown Speaker 1:15:44 I believe you sir, I believe you. So, I do not see any questions as I mentioned, perhaps maybe people are a little overwhelmed by your personality and would rather speak to Carrie with questions about what Unknown Speaker 1:16:01 goes off so Carrie is now. Alright, Unknown Speaker 1:16:03 and here Unknown Speaker 1:16:06 I have a question for Carrie. How did you ever get involved in this trail, Unknown Speaker 1:16:12 kind of a long story so I'll do it as short as I can. In 2002 I got associated with the blackjack bet. Well, the blackjack battlefield. It was owned by a private individual, and there were in 2003 there were a group of developers who wanted to buy it and develop into rural far, a very rural, five acre plots, and a group of preservation minded individuals got a chance to purchase it for full price out from under out from under those those developers, and we were developing the blackjack battlefield in Nature Park, which is three miles east of Baldwin City, Kansas, until I was involved, that was a John Brown site so I, I was interested in what John Brown was I had not even being in Kansas, I didn't have that much knowledge of John Brown. And then in 2006, a man, a local playwright, and author, asked me to do a play called Harpers Ferry Chronicles, and I said well, that means John Brown's going to be a major character he said of course I said Napoleon, I haven't done any acting since eighth grade when I played Tom Sawyer, I mean when I played engine Joe and our Tom Sawyer squirrel wide production of, like I said of Tom Sawyer, and he said well, Carrie, I wondered who to put in this spot and, and he said I thought about it. And then I meditated about it. And then I prayed about it. And your name came to me and I didn't know quite how to say no to that I said, Oh, okay. When is the play. Well, this was July of, oh six and the play was to be performed four times as a benefit for the local ama church in August. And so we had very intensive rehearsals and plays went off. Fine. And that was I assume the last time I would ever be John Brown mistakingly. My daughter was a senior in high school that year and she'd had AP history, the year before and she was clerking ating for the AP History teacher, she found in her box. One day, a note that said, John Brown. Father, your dad, John Brown, let's talk. He wanted me to do, John Brown for his AP History class and saying, I guess I'm enough of a ham, er, I couldn't come up with a good reason to say no so I said, Okay, so I got together some just really terrible clothes, anything that looked close to being, I didn't have dress up clothes that look like that so I got some and did it. And he raved about, he said You are John Brown, you must keep doing so well maybe I should. So I took a leap of faith. I had my. I John Brown clothes made for me. And I scheduled the next August, August of 22,007 to be present at the, the annual civil war in the western frontier in Lawrence which commemorates the anniversary of quantos raid on June on August 21 1863. And I did it then and everybody raved. And so I guess I was, I was hooked. And then people come asking me, I mean, you came and asked me to do it I didn't ask you. You asked me so it's, it's not an aftermarket myself, I guess my reputation precedes me, good or bad. And it's it's a blast it really is. I never would have thought this, I am a shy person to get up in front of people I don't know, and talk, but it's not me that's talking, it's on brown that's talking and that that helps that. That's it, I'm nervous up until the time but once John Brown starts. Unknown Speaker 1:20:03 You are him. You are he, so I do have a question for you. Sure, or John Brown. I'm sorry. Okay. You don't have to put your hat back on if you want to, you may but. So this is from Emily our she says, How did John Brown feel about the Indian Removal Act and the Trail of Tears, Unknown Speaker 1:20:22 his family were friends, of all people. His father worked diligently for the natives. Everywhere they were John Brown inherited that he would have had never seen any writings on it but I know he would have hated it. He would have seen it as bad as slavery, but there was nothing he could do about that. But it could do something about slavery. I imagined if he'd have survived Harpers Ferry and hanging and if he'd have lived through the Civil War, he would have been a pain in the side of America during the Indian Wars, I am convinced that you're not supposed to put words in the mouths of people that are gone but I am convinced he would have done that. Unknown Speaker 1:21:11 So, how many other presentations, do you have coming up here. Unknown Speaker 1:21:15 Well, Actually, obviously last year was pretty sparse, right, I've got a cup actually I've got to in the next couple of weeks local ones, nothing else after that it's hit or miss. It's feast or famine, and lately I've had a feast I've had a number of them. I'd actually did two in one day on the 18th of August, about 100 miles apart, which was interesting, and more than 100 miles from here so that was interesting, but it worked fine. Unknown Speaker 1:21:47 Were they in first person or Unknown Speaker 1:21:49 first person I don't I don't I don't talk about John Brown, I have John Brown talk about himself. And that way I can, he can say anything he wants to and nobody can say well you're wrong about that. Well, John Brown thought that. Unknown Speaker 1:22:02 So do you ever get pushed back a little, but not a lot. Is that because you're in Kansas and people, Unknown Speaker 1:22:09 oh I'm in I've been in Missouri. I've done this in several places. One of those was in Missouri on the 18th at the Battle of island mound. State Historic Site. Okay, with the first Kansas Colored Infantry fought the, the first battle that black soldiers fought in in the nation. In October of 62. Before the 54th Massachusetts was even established, but that's another story. But yeah, and I've done, I've done it many places where you would think I might get lynched, we make, we make jokes about it with it with the people that, that do the setting it up but not not really I don't know if people are just polite, or nobody wants to see John Brown who doesn't really like John Brown, I don't know. Unknown Speaker 1:23:00 Maybe they're just afraid of you. Maybe Unknown Speaker 1:23:02 that's it. Apparently I am rather than posing when I get when I get going when the spirit moves. Unknown Speaker 1:23:13 Well, I still don't see any questions we still have about five minutes, Unknown Speaker 1:23:17 you asked earlier, I mean, before we back when you emailed me we were doing this to talk about during first person. Yeah. And I came at it, you know, in I think pretty unique situation. I did not go looking for John Brown John Brown, literally came and got me and kicking. I was kicking and screaming but I did not have a choice. It's amazing how something's happened, and I've, I've had experiences in my life. In my past years that I think made me sensitive to some of the things he went through past my wife in 2004 so I know what it's like to, to lose a spouse. I've seen injustice. I remember seeing back in the 60s young black men and women being hit by fire with fire hoses water from fire hoses for simply marching for for justice, made me very sensitive to injustice and John Brown was habitually sensitive to injustice, so that helped. I know other people, they are actors, and they want to find a character, and John Brown is a compelling character. Many of them however don't perform him that the way I would like to see him performed as more of the crazy ish zealot, fire and brimstone, killing innocent people, which the men that were killed were not innocent, by any means. And, and, you know, That is what it is. That's why I do what I do to try to collect people, one quick thing, the man that killed John Brown, John Brown had the opportunity to take vengeance on him, and he told his men when they said, Let's go kill this man, he said I can't. he said. What we do this, this is not about this is not about vengeance, it's not about retribution. It's about a principle, and that principle is the restoration of human rights, and he led his men away from that man unmolested, who even pro slavery man would have agreed with him gunned down your son, probably have the right to kill him. So that's when I, that, that when that piece in a book that's when I realized that John Brown was not getting a fair shake. Unknown Speaker 1:25:39 And now he doesn't I agree with you wholeheartedly. So I have two more questions for you. So this is Kathleen Horan, she says I missed the first half of your presentation, do you belong to a group. Because of my group of impersonators or do you represent yourself. Unknown Speaker 1:25:53 I'm just myself. I've looked into getting them but some of them have other other groups of reenactors but they have requirements like you have to be a scholar on the subject, which I'm not, are you have to have a degree in history which I don't, or it's too far away so I might someday, but right now, I just do it on my own. As John Brown speaks, it actually I Lewis DeCaro Jr has a book called John Brown speaks which I did not know he had when I, when I named myself is so I hope he doesn't think I stole it. I, I came up with it on my own, I think. Unknown Speaker 1:26:34 So there's another question, again from Emily are the John Brown ever see that boy again that he became friends with the one and what we're making 12 Unknown Speaker 1:26:45 We only have one account, John Brown's account of that, and so he doesn't mention in there. I doubt it. That was in Michigan, where the fort was and, and they lived in Ohio, and I doubt very much if he did, it would be nice to know if he did. It'd be nice to know what happened to him, but we don't. Unfortunately, Unknown Speaker 1:27:11 I always liked that story because it seems like when kids are in 910 11 they're very impressionable and when things happen to them, they carry with them the rest of their life. And I think that's the John Brown story is appropriately there. Unknown Speaker 1:27:26 Some people say, well that's just an apocryphal story, he was, he was writing this to a young man, he was just coming out he was just making up stories and going, Why do you say that. Why are you Why can you trust him, well, why can you trust what anybody else said about John Brown at the time. It's all hearsay. If you want to go with that. Now I believe the man to be truthful and to, to have said that was the origin of that, and I don't have any documentation but I, I don't need documentation. Unknown Speaker 1:28:00 Well, seeing no more questions, wait, no, I check again. Don't see any more. Thank you so much. I want to. Yeah, I want to point out to everyone that you can reach his webs. Kerry's website by typing John Brown speaks calm. Unknown Speaker 1:28:16 Well one of the blackjack battlefield is an important site it's a National Historic Landmark blackjack Battlefield, on, on, Blackjack battlefield.org on the internet, Blackjack battlefield and Nature Park, on, on Facebook. Unknown Speaker 1:28:33 Okay. And if you go there, he will personally lead you on a tour at least Unknown Speaker 1:28:41 next month. So it's very, Unknown Speaker 1:28:42 I took that to our it's very impressive. You walk along with them and he points out things and it's very interesting required Unknown Speaker 1:28:48 paid supposed to be there too so we'll be arguing. Unknown Speaker 1:28:51 Oh, also, on your website you have a seaspan tour of Lawrence which is very informative people would like to see that that's where you Unknown Speaker 1:29:02 were two years ago and they had me send them around. Unknown Speaker 1:29:06 It's very informative, so I encourage everybody to go out there and thank you so much for appearing virtually with us, we wouldn't have been able to do this without zoom and sometimes when you come to Ohio, let us know. There are people in in the Western Reserve that would love to see you and show you around, I'm sure, Unknown Speaker 1:29:26 Ohio. Unknown Speaker 1:29:27 Uh huh. Well, Ohio and Kansas are the two big states that revere your reputation so very Unknown Speaker 1:29:33 few people know about Kansas. Yeah, well now people know a little bit more about what happened out here and how it shaped John Brown's life. Unknown Speaker 1:29:43 Yes and how violent it was freedom is not free, you know, Unknown Speaker 1:29:47 Kansas was Kansas was as violent as Iraq was after the, after the invasion was over, the Command and General Staff College at Fort Leavenworth actually studied Bleeding Kansas to see what they might be able to apply to the rack, because the situation's were so similar. Really, if you remember what it was like in Iraq and how much violence there was that was Bleeding Kansas. That's what John Brown came into. It's no surprise, he was radicalized. Unknown Speaker 1:30:21 Now, he was it. Well, seeing no other questions sir, we appreciate your time. Thank you for that, impassioned delivery, and for telling us the story of John Brown. Unknown Speaker 1:30:35 So, thank you for having me. I enjoyed it. Unknown Speaker 1:30:39 So I think we will leave the meeting here, all of you. All right, Unknown Speaker 1:30:44 We're all set. Thank you very much everyone. Transcribed by https://otter.ai